Paul, The first person I consulted when i started this was Damien actually. I've been updating him on what's going on throughout. It's unfortunate that you didn't ask me that privately first. The website, group and even the name, was a starting point. Thankfully this morning a helpful professional webdesigner has suggested a much better design logo etc. and I changed it back to default til it's done (which should be by the end of the holidays. If you'd said any of this privately I would have taken on board your opinion and made the changes).
James Corbett
· 2 years ago
Great commentary on the matter Paul. I've met Antoin at Limerick OpenCoffee a few times and know he's a great guy open to good advice.
One correction on your post though.... I'm no good to anyone as regards advice on this kind of stuff... I've organized feckall in that line! I'm all mouth no trousers mate ;-)
Happy Christmas! :)
Paul Walsh
· 2 years ago
@Anton - I don't doubt for a second that you're a great guy with brilliant intentions. That said, I don't think it's clever to start this initiative when there's so much happening already. The main advantage the Valley has, and I hesitate to draw it into the debate, is that it's a cluster. Ireland is so small that it should be easy to have a cluster - but this will be impossible if everyone is doing their own thing.
I wrote this post to get my message across to everyone. It wasn't about having a go at you.
We need more collaboration amongst the ecosystem stakeholders/influencers, not more initiatives to address collaboration.
Paul Walsh
· 2 years ago
@James - you know what it takes ;) Have a good one yourself!
Anton
· 2 years ago
I think it's great that you've opened this debate. If this event can be run under another banner and be successful I have no problem with that. People could have suggested that anytime, no one did though. Why not jump on board and make it better yourself...
Paul Walsh
· 2 years ago
@Anton - I think you should speak to Fergus about helping him, rather than starting something new and expecting them to help you. Web2Ireland already has a brand...
Conor O'Neill
· 2 years ago
I'm always happy to support any initiative that helps the web or business community in any way. Some of them have worked, some haven't, all were worthwhile to attempt.
I would never claim to be a great networker but I just cannot support something which uses phrases like "demobar-style event" when the organisers never even had the manners to contacted the people (no, I'm not one of them) who ran the first wildly successful demobar event. This is networking 101.
Unfortunately despite the great intentions, TechLudd looks like it may factionalise the community rather than be a useful complementary addition to what is going on already.
Anton
· 2 years ago
Look guys I have no intention here of treading on toes. If people don't want this or want to go to it. That's fine it is most certainly not my intention to factionalise anything. I will point out that this is the first time anyone has suggested this is not a good idea, which is surprising considering the amount of people who were aware of it. I am dissappointed those who seem to have a huge problem with this could not have said so directly to me before now. It is unfortunate to say the least...
Marcus Mac Innes
· 2 years ago
Some very valid points Paul, but consider this:
Anton, one of the most enthusiastic and energetic characters I've ever had the pleasure to meet, wanted to share the learnings of the PaddysValley trip with others.
Everyone was "talking" about having a meet up in January to continue the positive momentum we all experienced while in the Valley. Anton was the only one who stepped up the plate and took some action.
Personally, I’m not a huge fan of the proposed agenda and would prefer to not to see any more pitches from PV companies etc, I’d prefer to see at most a panel session where experiences could be discussed and shared, grass roots style.
Lastly, and with no disrespect to Web2Ireland, I don’t think people should have to seek any sort of official “approval” in order to have an idea and run with it. Where would we be if that were the case!
Why did Anton not contact Fergus in Web2Ireland? That’s a really good question. Web2Ireland might take this onboard as an observation and perhaps make improvements so that people feel more comfortable about asking to become involved.
Anton
· 2 years ago
@conor As there was a "demobar" event at the FOWA roadtrip event this phrase accidentally slid into my vernacular and was used accidentally. The error has been corrected as per Fergus.
Anton
· 2 years ago
Fergus did contact me via my post and I misread it and thought event they were running in Q1 was a "barcamp" (apologies). I did ask when he was thinking of having it etc. but no date has been set. The idea of TechLudd is that it is monthly. That is to say there will be some kind informal medium sized event with some strusture every month from now on. It doesn't have to be huge it just has to start... What it becomes is up to those involved.
Anton
· 2 years ago
In saying all that! Merry Christmas Paul! Hope to meet you sometime soon in the new year.
All the best,
Anton
Conor O'Neill
· 2 years ago
Marcus I love the sound of your discussion style meetup.
No-one needs permission to do anything but we all live in the same community so communications and networking (no not Facebook invites) are critical.
But when someone announces an event which is an almost carbon copy of the one run by Web2Ireland without making any contact whatsoever (and given the last part of your comment) then expecting everyone to just line in behind you is unrealistic.
If anyone has any issue with Web2Ireland, maybe they should voice it and try to improve it rather than snubbing those who put huge time and effort into helping the community.
Anton
· 2 years ago
@conor Just to be clear I have no issue with web2ireland at all. I was unaware they had intentions of running an event early next year and most certainly didn't snub them. I would be only delighted to help out an event of this sort run by we2ireland but there isn't one. It's the regularity of the event which I think is important. I don't "expect" anyone to "line in" at all. The idea is - the event is on come if you want. The event isn't modeled on the web2ireland event as I've said elsewhere it's modeled on meetups elsewhere. As the web2ireland event is not regular the idea is to have something monthly. If there isn't support for it that'll be obvious over time.
Marcus Mac Innes
· 2 years ago
@conor - Agreed. As I said, I wasn't a fan of the original agenda but I did welcome the opportunity of more networking events in Ireland and was willing to support anyone who was willing and had the time to organise them.
I would love to see this discussion move to a more constructive tone. AFAIK TechLudd is still happening on the 24th January. Does anyone have any suggestions for helping to make it a success?
@Anton, I don't mean to presume here... but suggestions may include a complete revamp of what is being proposed!
My suggestion, given the time remaining is to make it a simple meet up with a possible panel session. I would really like to see Maura Moore (http://www.aventura.ie) included on the panel and get her reaction to trip from a Irish VC perspective.
Conor O'Neill
· 2 years ago
Superb idea Marcus, I'd love to see the three perspectives - the startups, the VC and the Press.
And maybe even *cough*, EI :-)
Perhaps the first one could be used to enable to community to voice what they'd like to see in general with networking in Ireland.
Anton
· 2 years ago
@marcus Absolutely all suggestions (even a name change) are open. This is just what has come from the discussions so far. So if people prefer a total revamp then they shall have it. Stick it in the Wiki.
Anton
· 2 years ago
@conor @marcus Great ideas. I've already been in touch with intertrade about this and they said they're intersted in coming at least if not helping.
Fergus Burns
· 2 years ago
Hi Guys A bit storm brewing
couple of quick points [before i head to a Celtic game]
1. Web2Ireland is for everyone - its not me, nooked - its about the community 2. it was setup @ web2con in SF in 2005 3. its audience is widespread - you would be surprised who's subscribed 4. web2ireland is a brand that people relate to [esp. outside of Ireland] 5. EI provide no support to the forum - although its all about startups/web companies in Ireland [32 counties] 6. I personally pay for the domain reg. 7. Hosting365 provide hosting for free 8. we ran one large conf in 2006 - which EI stage managed
• Web2Ireland only works because people like Conor, Paul, Sean, Jonathan, Julian and a host of others contribute • we also try to stimulate activity - seedcamp, opencoffee, barcamp, etc - not in the business of "approving stuff" • we tried our best to get EI to do a israelwebtour - instead people stepped up and PV happened
1. Demobar was based on Stirr model in Valley 2. Ryan/FOWA presented a great opp to make the 1st event successful. 3. Sean O'Sullivan made DemoBar I happen. 4. the next demobar was pencilled in for end of Jan [the date was based on a keynote speaker availability and working with Ireland Inc dinner, etc - hence how Paul and I ended up talking about events in Jan]. 5. We have sponsors already - instead of us going with a begging bowl, we actually have people coming to us. [and some of these sponsors contacted me in relation to techludd - confusion as you can imagine]
At the end of the day the question is - do you want a vibrant community @ web2 in Ireland or do you want a host of little groups doing their own thing.
"The scene in Dublin is very, very exciting. So much so that I’d venture to say that it’s even more happening than the London scene. We had a massive turnout (200 excited people), there were demos, tons of networking - it felt even more exciting than a TechCrunch party in Silicon Valley.
I’d say a big key to that is the Web2Ireland group. They’re very positive, outgoing and excited about succeeding in the web space."
An example of it not working was MashupCamp - that was not good - Damien posted what everybody felt was wrong.
In summary its all about a successful ecosystem - we're struggling to create one - and I question if we'll ever have one.
Its not about who does what - its about who does what for everyone - and creating success for a everyone.
Paul Walsh
· 2 years ago
Fergus, I didn't mean to link your name to the Web2Ireland site. I've changed this so it links to your blog. I agree with everything said except for Ryan's quote. London is much more advanced when it comes to a networking ecosystem. The startup ecosystem is also more advanced.
That's not to say Ireland couldn't improve if everyone works together.
Paul Walsh
· 2 years ago
@Marcus - nobody has to ask Web2Ireland for permission. It's about collaborating with the people who are involved in helping make it a success.
A person's passion isn't a way to measure the potential success of an initiative. It's about experience and expertise and with respect, the current TechLudd (note that I'm not referring to anyone) doesn't demonstrate any of these characteristics.
My proposal is to get everyone to agree on a way forward. *Personally* I hope that way forward is via Web2Ireland as it already has a brand identity and as Fergus says, it has a good following.
Sabrina Dent
· 2 years ago
Leaving aside the question of who's experience and expertise are actually being utilised for TechLudd as it moves forward, I think it's interesting that "experience and expertise" are being vaunted as critical characteristics in an event aimed at startups.
Anton was very open about asking for input and contributions. Very few people I'm aware of stepped forward to help shape this event. He's been more than cheerful about all of the input I've offered and I'm willing to offer my time and effort even though I have no horse in this race because I believe broader technology networking has value.
Working with what input that has been constructively offered, there will be a more concrete version of the TechLudd plan in the next few days, with some more refined communication channels for those who want to take part, as featured guests, attendees or organisers. While the event may indeed fail, I just think it's a little early to shoot this particular beast.
Paul Walsh
· 2 years ago
@Sabrina - it's interesting that out of the entire blog post and all my comments, you decide to pick up on two words. So, let's ignore those two words as they're probably a little extreme... what are you thoughts regarding the rest?
Sabrina Dent
· 2 years ago
@Paul -
As I alluded to, I think Anton really clearly asked for a community-driven event - for people to jump in and share their thoughts on how to create a good event, particularly one that picks up on the drive from Paddy's Valley; and for people to collaborate in creating, shaping and moving it forward.
I think that instead of extending the invitation you apparently want to extend, you swung quite aggressively from the sidelines and yet are now asking for some kind of consensus under your project - a course of action that seems more poorly thought out than anything you might think of TechLudd.
The thoughts I have found constructive here are that the brand should be reconsidered and that the format needs solidifying. These conversations were already taking place among the people who stepped forward to help, so that's good to note. The suggestion of Maura Moore is, I think, an excellent one.
As I said, however TechLudd is eventually shaped and presented, it may succeed or it may fail. It may identify and find an audience, or it may not. But I think there is value in giving it a try because it is an opportunity to play with new formats, to incorporate new people, and to cross-cultivate between sectors.
My specific contributions at this very early stage are working with Anton around the site, the brand, the venue and the format for the first event. I'd like to see a professional website that puts an evolving project with its best foot forward; some people with valuable stories and experiences to share at the event; and a format that embraces interactivity in original ways and promotes the notion that we all have expertise to share.
I may not get everything I want. That's OK too. But I am certainly willing to put in effort and see what happens. I think where you and I really diverge is that I don't think there is any harm in introducing a new conference circuit, and you do. I don't think either of our opinions are likely to change before 24 January.
Bernie Goldbach
· 2 years ago
May I extend a warm invitation to everyone here for Limerick OpenCoffee, also scheduled for the third Thursday in January. You don't have to drink coffee to attend in the Absolute Hotel, Sir Harry's Mall, Limerick.
Eoghan McCabe
· 2 years ago
I'm a big believer in promoting innovation and change and progress, outside of the status quo. In fact, I believe this is the only place these things can really happen. To suggest that anyone in our small, immature scene needs to be "consulted" before a new initiative like TechLudd is embarked on is dangerous. Actually, it's a load of bollocks, if you'll excuse my language!
Paul, you know you have my personal respect. The same goes for all on the list of people you linked. But only one of these (yourself included) were even at PaddysValley (which was the catalyst for TechLudd)! And only two of that list (AFAIK) have ever met Anton or spoken with him about what he wants to do. Give the guy a chance, for God's sake! If you're really so fond of "collaborating, networking and connecting", why not join in and help, instead of jumping to conclusions and publicly knocking the event? Where will that kind of behaviour get anyone?
I don't know where TechLudd will go or even where Anton wants it to go, but I'm going to do whatever I can to help make it happen. If it's of any value to people, it will stick and our active community will grow. If it doesn't work, that's fine too. There's room for all sorts of people and initiatives as long as we maintain a single vision. The only risk of segmenting the community will come from those that jump to attack and point fingers rather than embrace new ideas and work together.
But the reason I'm glad you've posted this it that it has highlighted this need for a "single vision". What is it? What should it be? Where does Ireland want to be in 10 years, relative to the Valley and elsewhere? Do we want to fight to be a second, mini-Valley or do we want to branch-out on our own and carve-out a new tech-niche? And what do we need (events, organisations, etc.) to get there?
It's my hope that TechLudd and other new initiatives (like PaddysValley, like Curry 2.0!) can start to answer these. So let's give it a go and see what happens!
Paul Walsh
· 2 years ago
@Sabrina @Eoghan
TechLudd is a shambles before it has started but more importantly, it’s duplicating the efforts of others who are doing a good job. I’m referring to everyone named in my email plus you Eoghan (I forgot to name-check you in my post).
People like Loic Le Meur who live in the US, have already been invited to the first event which has absolutely no substance whatsoever. No keynote speaker, no pitches, no content, no venue. When representing an entire industry, drive and passion isn’t enough – they’re 2 ingredients only.
Absolutely everything about it is very poor. It’s only because it can be perceived as an Irish ‘community’ initiative that I have an issue with it.
When I used the term ‘consult’ I was using it in the context of ‘talk to’, ‘seek advice from’, ‘sound out’, ‘discuss with’, ‘confer with’.
I wouldn’t even put the Curry 2.0 dinners in the same conversation because as far as I’m concerned, they’re just a bit of fun.
I’m not commentated on the person(s) behind the initiative which is why I refused to name names. I’m commentating on a very badly formed networking initiative.
If you really want me to dig deep here… if it takes for someone to visit the Valley to come up with something like this then God helps us! Sorry, but there are enough people in Ireland that have the connections, experience (yes, you do actually benefit from having experience), time and all the other qualities required to help build an ecosystem. The trip to the Valley was a resounding success and one I applaud. So don’t think for a second that I’m commentating on that! :) BTW, that trip was successful as a direct result of some of the people I name-checked – no one else.
I decided to call on this because it’s time Ireland sorted itself out given that it has all the fine qualities to make for a brilliant environment for people to start up new businesses. I’d love nothing more than to recommend Ireland to my friends aboard, but I can’t. There are still too many small minded people who guard even their own business cards, never mind the connections they have.
I met with Enterprise Ireland this week and they’ve agreed for me to host a meeting with Irish Internet startups in February. My goal is to help EI understand what it can do better and more of, to help improve the communication between state agency and to help build the ecosystem. There’s nothing to improve, as it has yet to be built. This was at my request at a meeting where I was supposed to talk about ‘Segala’.
BTW, why on earth would I need to travel to the Valley with a bunch of people in order to qualify my opinion about this type of activity?
Paul Walsh
· 2 years ago
I felt this point deserved a separate comment.
You should not be asking why others aren't getting involved in TechLudd. You should be asking why the organisers of TechLudd aren't getting involved with the stuff that's going on already. I simply have a problem with all these silos given that it's difficult enough to get these things moving. Personally, I haven't got the significant amount of time that would be required to make something of this initiative.
Let's not confuse people outside of Ireland with all these mixed messages. Get the story straight.
My proposal is for *everyone* to put their weight behind http://Web2Ireland.org - why is that so difficult to understand and agree on? Why are people assuming that I'm taking a shot at individuals? That's another problem that needs to be addressed in Ireland - it's not personal!
Sabrina Dent
· 2 years ago
"My proposal is for *everyone* to put their weight behind http://Web2Ireland.org - why is that so difficult to understand and agree on?"
Possibly because with this post, you are doing the worst possible PR job for web2ireland anyone could ever have dreamed of? If you have an agenda and you need to lure people over to form consensus behind that agenda, this is emphatically not how you do it.
Paul Walsh
· 2 years ago
Sabrina - perhaps you're confusing me with someone else? I don't write on Web2Ireland and am in no way connected to it currently. I did write on it in the past but decided to stop after a disagreement I had with some of the other contributors regarding my breaking of the TechCrunch UK news on the Web last year.
I have absolutely no agenda - you clearly don't know me at all if you think I'd have one. I only have best intentions at heart.
Damien Mulley
· 2 years ago
Since I'm mentioned here I guess I have to reply but to be clear, I won't be taking an active part in any of these groups and for various reasons I think I'm going to be bowing out of most events in 2008.
I'm glad the white knight that is Fergus came in to this and talked the most sense here and was not territorial. Too many dogs, not enough hydrants.
Anton, you did consult me but I didn't give much, if any feedback though I did say run the idea past Fergus. Seems there's been a basic communications screw up here by a few people not one. I had meant to forward on your thoughts to Conor and James too but things got in the way.
Anton this next bits sounds like I'm talking as if you're 14 but I'm in too much of a hurry to frame this right. Anton is bright and enthusiastic and has a lot of energy and wants to help a community not act just for himself. The org doesn't matter but he should be welcomed into the community since when it comes down to it there's a very slim few busting their balls to do things here and there's always space for more er .. dangly bits. But there needs to be coordination too so there's no overlap. The place is too small to have overlap.
By the by, the information on web2Ireland is almost all new information to me. I wasn't aware of that, perhaps there needs to be more in the about us section and how to help us sections?
Really surprised at the amount of pissy ego bumping in the comments here. I mean, none of them were from me.
Sabrina Dent
· 2 years ago
I'm not confusing you with anyone because I have no idea who you are. I'd never run across you before today as far as I can remember. I do not know you at all, in any context, full stop. So everything I know about you stems from this post and your comments following it.
You do, in fact, have a very clearly stated agenda: to get TechLudd to stop before it starts, and entice the few people associated it to run this event under web2ireland instead.
To further your goal, you have poured vinegar over someone's initiative ("TechLudd is a shambles... absolutely everything about it is very poor..") when honey would have found a much more receptive audience. You've effectively set people up to oppose the very thing you wanted to achieve, simply because your approach has been so negative and cack-handed.
Had you taken the *cooperative* approach that was solicited and pitched into the project with the idea of migrating TechLudd to web2ireland, or suggested to someone at web2ireland that they extend an *invitation* to bring TechLudd into the fold, we would not all be having this row right now. Something else would be happening instead, perhaps the very thing you wanted to achieve.
I don't think you've particularly distinguished yourself here, but more importantly, through your approach you haven't made the thing you're arguing for look great, either.
Paul Walsh
· 2 years ago
@Sabrina maybe you should do your homework before bringing my professionalism and character into question.
There's no point in my reiterating yet again, why I took the direct approach. Again, do your homework.
Sabrina Dent
· 2 years ago
And because I cannot be arsed to reiterate, once again, why I think that was a misguided choice, I'm done here. We have a fundamental difference of opinion, and we're certainly not going to work it out in blog comments, so it's best if I just step aside and leave you to your soap box on this issue.
Have a happy holiday a good New Year!
Mike Butcher
· 2 years ago
This is all very interesting...
Loic
· 2 years ago
I am always happy to join events organized by cool people, it's the most important for me. Not too much marketing and cool people organizing and participating. I always decide by how many friends of mine are going. I have to say I have only been to Ireland once and would love to come back. Problem now is my family is based in SF and I feel bad to leave them too often so I am trying to limit the trips that are long flights. But hey, looks like a good initiative.
Ajit Jaokar
· 2 years ago
Hello Paul, You mention my name .. but I dont seem to have been invited as a speaker. I am speaking at another event in Ireland in 2008 but I dont think its this one. Anyway, wishing all a merry christmas and a happy new year kind rgds Ajit
Paul Walsh
· 2 years ago
Loic - that's exactly how I feel. So, if you didn't know the event organisers you'd struggle to make a decision I bet. That's why I think events based in Ireland (or anyone else for that matter) need the main connectors behind them if they're to attract people like you from the US.
Ajit - you were invited (I believe) via Facebook. Like Loic you're demonstrating my point. I wouldn't invite you to one of my London events unless it was to speak, or to network with compelling people who you trust and respect. If you don't know who's going to attend or speak, you're not likely to attend when you don't know who the event organisers are; hence you won't know who they can attract.
Thanks to you both for dropping by :)
Mike - I almost deleted your comment as it looked like spam ;-)
Ajit Jaokar
· 2 years ago
Thanks Paul. I have not been on facebook for some time and its been manic over the last few weeks as it always is. Like Loic, I am always happy to support any events where I can. BTW: One of these days we should catch up! kind rgds Ajit
Paul Walsh
· 2 years ago
Ajit - deffo. I see you're a fan of the W3C Mobile Web Initiative which means you should be aware of my involvement as a member of the Steering Council. BTW, we have a task force meeting in London to create mobileOK Pro very soon too.
Richard Hearne
· 2 years ago
Hi Paul
I've just read this page head to foot. We've not met previously. This certainly isn't personal, but your last comment above comes across as completely elitist.
I have to echo what Sabrina has said above - I don't think your communication style here is either positive or open. That's a shame as I've heard you're very amenable to helping others.
I'll happily attend any event where I can talk with like-minded people. I might put it down after, but putting down such an initiative before it happens is part of the reason there really is no 'community' in Ireland. Your comment to Ajit above (sorry Ajit, I have no idea who you are, so have no idea how much 'reverence' to show you) smacks of WIIFM. That's what kills communities, not what builds them.
Seasons greetings to all Rgds Richard
Ajit Jaokar
· 2 years ago
thanks Richard. I am not very clear as well as I said in my comment above but hopefully things will be clear soon. Seasons greetings to all. kind rgds Ajit
Paul Walsh
· 2 years ago
@Richard - you've lost me regarding my comment to Ajit and how it kills communities.
Richard Hearne
· 2 years ago
I wouldn’t invite you to one of my London events unless it was to speak, or to network with compelling people who you trust and respect.
Perhaps the potential to meet with someone new? Someone who might just be the most important person you'll ever meet? Surely the point of these events is to broaden mindsets through interactions with others? Not to maintain a staus quo around existing networks.
Or is that too much of a risk?
I dont think my comment about killing community was strictly applicable to your comment to Ajit, but more to your overall tone here. Community is built on individuals working under the pretext of WIIFY. Giving not taking.
Again I apologise - this isn't a personal thing, but your tone sounds to me much more along the line of WIIFM.
Rgds Richard
Paul Walsh
· 2 years ago
I won't comment on what you think about my ability to help build communities as it'll turn into an anatomy-size comparison competition and I'll then be blamed for being egotistical.
I have a ton of experience running, hosting and Chairing events, so I know what the ingredients are for attracting people who already get invited to lots of events (I'm not referring to the average punter!). 'People' is what attracts. If you don't know who's behind an event, who's going to be there, or who's going to speak, what the hell have you got. Ans = nothing. Why on earth is that so difficult to understand?
Richard Hearne
· 2 years ago
I won’t comment on what you think about my ability to help build communities..
And why would you? I've made no reference to your abilities, only to your tone in this thread.
John McCormac
· 2 years ago
Paul - your comment on the target audience is something I agree with. :) If any prospective or existing entrepreneurs don't realise the importance of time management yet, then they should not be in the game.
@some others - Being happy-clappy about community is all very nice and dot.bombish but events have to be worth attending. It might sound rather WIIFMish but surviving as an entrepreneur in Ireland sometimes takes a healthy cynicism.
Happy Christmas.
Niall Larkin
· 1 year ago
I've just been re-reading "Lord of the Flies". Now this may be colouring how I'm seeing the world at this very moment. But the above thread bears striking parallels to the battle for the conch.
Jonathan
· 1 year ago
Coming in from the outside it seems to me that both parties are trying to achieve the same goal. If anything I always believe that competition breeds success and having two separate initiatives will never hurt the Irish software industry provided that the people behind both efforts have the desire and willpower to succeed.
Best of luck to both parties. Hope to see everyone who commented at whatever conferences are organized.
Paul Walsh
· 1 year ago
@Jonathan - I can't disagree with your point. What I would say though, is that the quality must always be good enough to compete with other events on the global stage - people can only attend so many events. We’ll otherwise end up putting people off any type of event in Ireland in the future. As Loic says, it’s about ‘people’, so we need to get everyone behind one initiative to help build the ecosystem in Ireland.
We're not discussing competitive 'conferences', we're talking about competing 'initiatives' that clearly have the same goal and therefore should work together under one banner.
Perhaps I'll host a dinner in Dublin to discuss this outside of the meetup I'm arranging to discuss the introduction of a new industry association and the meetup I'm arranging for Enterprise Ireland and entrepreneurs. That'll be 3 dinners - need to be careful not to grow extra chins though! :)
Conor O'Neill
· 1 year ago
As long as the curry is good :-)
dahowlett
· 1 year ago
@PaulWalsh's point about quality is very well made. There are so many events these days, a lot of overlap. LeWeb3 was truly stand out for me though I'm told some of the US contingent were not that impressed. Maybe it's because so many of the 'usual suspects' were in one place. Either way, it was great for me and most of those I bumped into.
Marcus Mac Innes
· 1 year ago
@DennisHowlett - "There are so many events these days, a lot of overlap"... Really?? - The reason TechLudd was proposed and might bring value is exactly because there are so few networking opportunities in Ireland.
Eoghan McCabe
· 1 year ago
People interested in this discussion should read these three strong, parallel points:
Eoghan - "clique’s" as per Gary's comment on TechCrunch is crap. There are no cliques within the networking scene in Ireland - you just have those who are willing to put in the time. Those same people are the most open and transparent people you'll meet in Ireland too - so using the word clique to describe them is complete crap.
Paul Walsh
· 1 year ago
@Marcus people don't turn up to the networking events that take place so we need to improve how they're communicated to begin with - i.e. build the ecosystem. Check out Damien Mulley's blog post about his thoughts regarding the last one - can't remember the link.
Jonathan
· 1 year ago
@Paul, I'm just getting into the current scene here in Ireland. I've been living in China for the past few years and was very much immersed in the IT community in Beijing and Dalian.
I'm quite looking forward to whatever networking events are created, I also agree that there must definitely be a main focal point for the best people in the business to congregate. Who that group is or what banner they unite under certainly remains to be seen, one must be aware that that does not mean this group is going to remain that focal point. That must of course be earned through hard work. Let the competition for the domination of Ireland begin.
appleton
· 1 year ago
"Why on earth would a salesperson want to network with a coder?"
These ignorant attitudes prevent anything commercially interesting coming off this *island*.
Paul Walsh
· 1 year ago
@appleton - two comments on this blog and neither one was constructive. Perhaps you could share with us, the reason you think my comment warrants such a retort?
Anyone with any form of experience running networking events will know that getting likeminded people together is paramount to the success of such events. I wasn't picking out 'sales' people or 'coders' - I was only giving an example of types of people who wouldn't ordinarily attend the same events alongside everyone else proposed by TechLudd.
Perhaps you could elaborate a little rather than take a shot across the bow.
Paul Walsh
· 1 year ago
For the sake of the record (only), I have updated this post with the following:
[Update. The TechLudd Web site to which this post refers no longer exists. The site and message I commentated on has since been replaced by a new professional one. The logo above was the original one used by the site. It's also worth pointing out that the new posts on TechCrunch and other blogs link to this post and the new TechLudd Web site, thereby taking the entire debate out of context.]
All Comments
One correction on your post though.... I'm no good to anyone as regards advice on this kind of stuff... I've organized feckall in that line! I'm all mouth no trousers mate ;-)
Happy Christmas! :)
I wrote this post to get my message across to everyone. It wasn't about having a go at you.
We need more collaboration amongst the ecosystem stakeholders/influencers, not more initiatives to address collaboration.
I would never claim to be a great networker but I just cannot support something which uses phrases like "demobar-style event" when the organisers never even had the manners to contacted the people (no, I'm not one of them) who ran the first wildly successful demobar event. This is networking 101.
Unfortunately despite the great intentions, TechLudd looks like it may factionalise the community rather than be a useful complementary addition to what is going on already.
I am dissappointed those who seem to have a huge problem with this could not have said so directly to me before now. It is unfortunate to say the least...
Anton, one of the most enthusiastic and energetic characters I've ever had the pleasure to meet, wanted to share the learnings of the PaddysValley trip with others.
Everyone was "talking" about having a meet up in January to continue the positive momentum we all experienced while in the Valley. Anton was the only one who stepped up the plate and took some action.
Personally, I’m not a huge fan of the proposed agenda and would prefer to not to see any more pitches from PV companies etc, I’d prefer to see at most a panel session where experiences could be discussed and shared, grass roots style.
Lastly, and with no disrespect to Web2Ireland, I don’t think people should have to seek any sort of official “approval” in order to have an idea and run with it. Where would we be if that were the case!
Why did Anton not contact Fergus in Web2Ireland? That’s a really good question. Web2Ireland might take this onboard as an observation and perhaps make improvements so that people feel more comfortable about asking to become involved.
The idea of TechLudd is that it is monthly. That is to say there will be some kind informal medium sized event with some strusture every month from now on. It doesn't have to be huge it just has to start... What it becomes is up to those involved.
All the best,
Anton
No-one needs permission to do anything but we all live in the same community so communications and networking (no not Facebook invites) are critical.
But when someone announces an event which is an almost carbon copy of the one run by Web2Ireland without making any contact whatsoever (and given the last part of your comment) then expecting everyone to just line in behind you is unrealistic.
If anyone has any issue with Web2Ireland, maybe they should voice it and try to improve it rather than snubbing those who put huge time and effort into helping the community.
I don't "expect" anyone to "line in" at all. The idea is - the event is on come if you want. The event isn't modeled on the web2ireland event as I've said elsewhere it's modeled on meetups elsewhere. As the web2ireland event is not regular the idea is to have something monthly. If there isn't support for it that'll be obvious over time.
I would love to see this discussion move to a more constructive tone. AFAIK TechLudd is still happening on the 24th January. Does anyone have any suggestions for helping to make it a success?
@Anton, I don't mean to presume here... but suggestions may include a complete revamp of what is being proposed!
My suggestion, given the time remaining is to make it a simple meet up with a possible panel session. I would really like to see Maura Moore (http://www.aventura.ie) included on the panel and get her reaction to trip from a Irish VC perspective.
And maybe even *cough*, EI :-)
Perhaps the first one could be used to enable to community to voice what they'd like to see in general with networking in Ireland.
A bit storm brewing
couple of quick points [before i head to a Celtic game]
1. Web2Ireland is for everyone - its not me, nooked - its about the community
2. it was setup @ web2con in SF in 2005
3. its audience is widespread - you would be surprised who's subscribed
4. web2ireland is a brand that people relate to [esp. outside of Ireland]
5. EI provide no support to the forum - although its all about startups/web companies in Ireland [32 counties]
6. I personally pay for the domain reg.
7. Hosting365 provide hosting for free
8. we ran one large conf in 2006 - which EI stage managed
• Web2Ireland only works because people like Conor, Paul, Sean, Jonathan, Julian and a host of others contribute
• we also try to stimulate activity - seedcamp, opencoffee, barcamp, etc - not in the business of "approving stuff"
• we tried our best to get EI to do a israelwebtour - instead people stepped up and PV happened
1. Demobar was based on Stirr model in Valley
2. Ryan/FOWA presented a great opp to make the 1st event successful.
3. Sean O'Sullivan made DemoBar I happen.
4. the next demobar was pencilled in for end of Jan [the date was based on a keynote speaker availability and working with Ireland Inc dinner, etc - hence how Paul and I ended up talking about events in Jan].
5. We have sponsors already - instead of us going with a begging bowl, we actually have people coming to us. [and some of these sponsors contacted me in relation to techludd - confusion as you can imagine]
At the end of the day the question is - do you want a vibrant community @ web2 in Ireland or do you want a host of little groups doing their own thing.
An example of how it can work
From Ryan Carson
I’d say a big key to that is the Web2Ireland group. They’re very positive, outgoing and excited about succeeding in the web space."
An example of it not working was MashupCamp - that was not good - Damien posted what everybody felt was wrong.
In summary its all about a successful ecosystem - we're struggling to create one - and I question if we'll ever have one.
Its not about who does what - its about who does what for everyone - and creating success for a everyone.
That's not to say Ireland couldn't improve if everyone works together.
A person's passion isn't a way to measure the potential success of an initiative. It's about experience and expertise and with respect, the current TechLudd (note that I'm not referring to anyone) doesn't demonstrate any of these characteristics.
My proposal is to get everyone to agree on a way forward. *Personally* I hope that way forward is via Web2Ireland as it already has a brand identity and as Fergus says, it has a good following.
Anton was very open about asking for input and contributions. Very few people I'm aware of stepped forward to help shape this event. He's been more than cheerful about all of the input I've offered and I'm willing to offer my time and effort even though I have no horse in this race because I believe broader technology networking has value.
Working with what input that has been constructively offered, there will be a more concrete version of the TechLudd plan in the next few days, with some more refined communication channels for those who want to take part, as featured guests, attendees or organisers. While the event may indeed fail, I just think it's a little early to shoot this particular beast.
As I alluded to, I think Anton really clearly asked for a community-driven event - for people to jump in and share their thoughts on how to create a good event, particularly one that picks up on the drive from Paddy's Valley; and for people to collaborate in creating, shaping and moving it forward.
I think that instead of extending the invitation you apparently want to extend, you swung quite aggressively from the sidelines and yet are now asking for some kind of consensus under your project - a course of action that seems more poorly thought out than anything you might think of TechLudd.
The thoughts I have found constructive here are that the brand should be reconsidered and that the format needs solidifying. These conversations were already taking place among the people who stepped forward to help, so that's good to note. The suggestion of Maura Moore is, I think, an excellent one.
As I said, however TechLudd is eventually shaped and presented, it may succeed or it may fail. It may identify and find an audience, or it may not. But I think there is value in giving it a try because it is an opportunity to play with new formats, to incorporate new people, and to cross-cultivate between sectors.
My specific contributions at this very early stage are working with Anton around the site, the brand, the venue and the format for the first event. I'd like to see a professional website that puts an evolving project with its best foot forward; some people with valuable stories and experiences to share at the event; and a format that embraces interactivity in original ways and promotes the notion that we all have expertise to share.
I may not get everything I want. That's OK too. But I am certainly willing to put in effort and see what happens. I think where you and I really diverge is that I don't think there is any harm in introducing a new conference circuit, and you do. I don't think either of our opinions are likely to change before 24 January.
Paul, you know you have my personal respect. The same goes for all on the list of people you linked. But only one of these (yourself included) were even at PaddysValley (which was the catalyst for TechLudd)! And only two of that list (AFAIK) have ever met Anton or spoken with him about what he wants to do. Give the guy a chance, for God's sake! If you're really so fond of "collaborating, networking and connecting", why not join in and help, instead of jumping to conclusions and publicly knocking the event? Where will that kind of behaviour get anyone?
I don't know where TechLudd will go or even where Anton wants it to go, but I'm going to do whatever I can to help make it happen. If it's of any value to people, it will stick and our active community will grow. If it doesn't work, that's fine too. There's room for all sorts of people and initiatives as long as we maintain a single vision. The only risk of segmenting the community will come from those that jump to attack and point fingers rather than embrace new ideas and work together.
But the reason I'm glad you've posted this it that it has highlighted this need for a "single vision". What is it? What should it be? Where does Ireland want to be in 10 years, relative to the Valley and elsewhere? Do we want to fight to be a second, mini-Valley or do we want to branch-out on our own and carve-out a new tech-niche? And what do we need (events, organisations, etc.) to get there?
It's my hope that TechLudd and other new initiatives (like PaddysValley, like Curry 2.0!) can start to answer these. So let's give it a go and see what happens!
TechLudd is a shambles before it has started but more importantly, it’s duplicating the efforts of others who are doing a good job. I’m referring to everyone named in my email plus you Eoghan (I forgot to name-check you in my post).
People like Loic Le Meur who live in the US, have already been invited to the first event which has absolutely no substance whatsoever. No keynote speaker, no pitches, no content, no venue. When representing an entire industry, drive and passion isn’t enough – they’re 2 ingredients only.
Absolutely everything about it is very poor. It’s only because it can be perceived as an Irish ‘community’ initiative that I have an issue with it.
When I used the term ‘consult’ I was using it in the context of ‘talk to’, ‘seek advice from’, ‘sound out’, ‘discuss with’, ‘confer with’.
I wouldn’t even put the Curry 2.0 dinners in the same conversation because as far as I’m concerned, they’re just a bit of fun.
I’m not commentated on the person(s) behind the initiative which is why I refused to name names. I’m commentating on a very badly formed networking initiative.
If you really want me to dig deep here… if it takes for someone to visit the Valley to come up with something like this then God helps us! Sorry, but there are enough people in Ireland that have the connections, experience (yes, you do actually benefit from having experience), time and all the other qualities required to help build an ecosystem. The trip to the Valley was a resounding success and one I applaud. So don’t think for a second that I’m commentating on that! :) BTW, that trip was successful as a direct result of some of the people I name-checked – no one else.
I decided to call on this because it’s time Ireland sorted itself out given that it has all the fine qualities to make for a brilliant environment for people to start up new businesses. I’d love nothing more than to recommend Ireland to my friends aboard, but I can’t. There are still too many small minded people who guard even their own business cards, never mind the connections they have.
I met with Enterprise Ireland this week and they’ve agreed for me to host a meeting with Irish Internet startups in February. My goal is to help EI understand what it can do better and more of, to help improve the communication between state agency and to help build the ecosystem. There’s nothing to improve, as it has yet to be built. This was at my request at a meeting where I was supposed to talk about ‘Segala’.
BTW, why on earth would I need to travel to the Valley with a bunch of people in order to qualify my opinion about this type of activity?
You should not be asking why others aren't getting involved in TechLudd. You should be asking why the organisers of TechLudd aren't getting involved with the stuff that's going on already. I simply have a problem with all these silos given that it's difficult enough to get these things moving. Personally, I haven't got the significant amount of time that would be required to make something of this initiative.
Let's not confuse people outside of Ireland with all these mixed messages. Get the story straight.
My proposal is for *everyone* to put their weight behind http://Web2Ireland.org - why is that so difficult to understand and agree on? Why are people assuming that I'm taking a shot at individuals? That's another problem that needs to be addressed in Ireland - it's not personal!
Possibly because with this post, you are doing the worst possible PR job for web2ireland anyone could ever have dreamed of? If you have an agenda and you need to lure people over to form consensus behind that agenda, this is emphatically not how you do it.
I have absolutely no agenda - you clearly don't know me at all if you think I'd have one. I only have best intentions at heart.
I'm glad the white knight that is Fergus came in to this and talked the most sense here and was not territorial. Too many dogs, not enough hydrants.
Anton, you did consult me but I didn't give much, if any feedback though I did say run the idea past Fergus. Seems there's been a basic communications screw up here by a few people not one. I had meant to forward on your thoughts to Conor and James too but things got in the way.
Anton this next bits sounds like I'm talking as if you're 14 but I'm in too much of a hurry to frame this right. Anton is bright and enthusiastic and has a lot of energy and wants to help a community not act just for himself. The org doesn't matter but he should be welcomed into the community since when it comes down to it there's a very slim few busting their balls to do things here and there's always space for more er .. dangly bits. But there needs to be coordination too so there's no overlap. The place is too small to have overlap.
By the by, the information on web2Ireland is almost all new information to me. I wasn't aware of that, perhaps there needs to be more in the about us section and how to help us sections?
Really surprised at the amount of pissy ego bumping in the comments here. I mean, none of them were from me.
You do, in fact, have a very clearly stated agenda: to get TechLudd to stop before it starts, and entice the few people associated it to run this event under web2ireland instead.
To further your goal, you have poured vinegar over someone's initiative ("TechLudd is a shambles... absolutely everything about it is very poor..") when honey would have found a much more receptive audience. You've effectively set people up to oppose the very thing you wanted to achieve, simply because your approach has been so negative and cack-handed.
Had you taken the *cooperative* approach that was solicited and pitched into the project with the idea of migrating TechLudd to web2ireland, or suggested to someone at web2ireland that they extend an *invitation* to bring TechLudd into the fold, we would not all be having this row right now. Something else would be happening instead, perhaps the very thing you wanted to achieve.
I don't think you've particularly distinguished yourself here, but more importantly, through your approach you haven't made the thing you're arguing for look great, either.
There's no point in my reiterating yet again, why I took the direct approach. Again, do your homework.
Have a happy holiday a good New Year!
Ajit - you were invited (I believe) via Facebook. Like Loic you're demonstrating my point. I wouldn't invite you to one of my London events unless it was to speak, or to network with compelling people who you trust and respect. If you don't know who's going to attend or speak, you're not likely to attend when you don't know who the event organisers are; hence you won't know who they can attract.
Thanks to you both for dropping by :)
Mike - I almost deleted your comment as it looked like spam ;-)
I've just read this page head to foot. We've not met previously. This certainly isn't personal, but your last comment above comes across as completely elitist.
I have to echo what Sabrina has said above - I don't think your communication style here is either positive or open. That's a shame as I've heard you're very amenable to helping others.
I'll happily attend any event where I can talk with like-minded people. I might put it down after, but putting down such an initiative before it happens is part of the reason there really is no 'community' in Ireland. Your comment to Ajit above (sorry Ajit, I have no idea who you are, so have no idea how much 'reverence' to show you) smacks of WIIFM. That's what kills communities, not what builds them.
Seasons greetings to all
Rgds
Richard
Perhaps the potential to meet with someone new? Someone who might just be the most important person you'll ever meet? Surely the point of these events is to broaden mindsets through interactions with others? Not to maintain a staus quo around existing networks.
Or is that too much of a risk?
I dont think my comment about killing community was strictly applicable to your comment to Ajit, but more to your overall tone here. Community is built on individuals working under the pretext of WIIFY. Giving not taking.
Again I apologise - this isn't a personal thing, but your tone sounds to me much more along the line of WIIFM.
Rgds
Richard
I have a ton of experience running, hosting and Chairing events, so I know what the ingredients are for attracting people who already get invited to lots of events (I'm not referring to the average punter!). 'People' is what attracts. If you don't know who's behind an event, who's going to be there, or who's going to speak, what the hell have you got. Ans = nothing. Why on earth is that so difficult to understand?
And why would you? I've made no reference to your abilities, only to your tone in this thread.
@some others - Being happy-clappy about community is all very nice and dot.bombish but events have to be worth attending. It might sound rather WIIFMish but surviving as an entrepreneur in Ireland sometimes takes a healthy cynicism.
Happy Christmas.
Best of luck to both parties. Hope to see everyone who commented at whatever conferences are organized.
We're not discussing competitive 'conferences', we're talking about competing 'initiatives' that clearly have the same goal and therefore should work together under one banner.
Perhaps I'll host a dinner in Dublin to discuss this outside of the meetup I'm arranging to discuss the introduction of a new industry association and the meetup I'm arranging for Enterprise Ireland and entrepreneurs. That'll be 3 dinners - need to be careful not to grow extra chins though! :)
1. Comment by Gary Reid on TechCrunch: http://uk.techcrunch.com/2007/12/24/when-irish-...
2. Comment by Niall Larkin on Eirepreneur: http://eirepreneur.blogs.com/eirepreneur/2007/1...
3. Post by Robin Blandford: http://www.bytesurgery.com/blog/2007/12/24/let-...
I'm quite looking forward to whatever networking events are created, I also agree that there must definitely be a main focal point for the best people in the business to congregate. Who that group is or what banner they unite under certainly remains to be seen, one must be aware that that does not mean this group is going to remain that focal point. That must of course be earned through hard work. Let the competition for the domination of Ireland begin.
These ignorant attitudes prevent anything commercially interesting coming off this *island*.
Anyone with any form of experience running networking events will know that getting likeminded people together is paramount to the success of such events. I wasn't picking out 'sales' people or 'coders' - I was only giving an example of types of people who wouldn't ordinarily attend the same events alongside everyone else proposed by TechLudd.
Perhaps you could elaborate a little rather than take a shot across the bow.
[Update. The TechLudd Web site to which this post refers no longer exists. The site and message I commentated on has since been replaced by a new professional one. The logo above was the original one used by the site. It's also worth pointing out that the new posts on TechCrunch and other blogs link to this post and the new TechLudd Web site, thereby taking the entire debate out of context.]